Government agents into conferences between himself and his counsel, including his wife Nancy, who is a lawyer. Appellant asserts that the assumed intrusion invokes a per se rule which compels reversal of the judgment of conviction without any showing of prejudice to the defendant. Coplon v. United States, 89 U.S.App.D.C. 103, 191 F.2d 749 (1951), cert. denied, 342 U.S. 926, 72 S.Ct. 363, 96 L.Ed. 690 (1952); Caldwell v. United States, 92 U.S.App.D.C. 355, 205 F.2d 879 (1953), cert. denied, 349 U.S. 930, 75 S.Ct. 773, 99 L.Ed. 1260, reh. denied, 349 U.S. 969, 75 S.Ct. 880, 99 L.Ed. 1290 (1955); see Black v. United States, 385 U.S. 26, 87 S.Ct. 190, 17 L.Ed.2d 26 (1966); O’Brien v. United States, 386 U.S. 345, 87 S.Ct. 1158, 18 L.Ed.2d 94 (1967), and see Hoffa v. United States, 385 U.S. 293, 87 S.Ct. 408, 17 L.Ed.2d 374 (1966).
The two persons described as “agents of the Government” by Rosner are DeStefano and Lamattina. Appellant asserts that the participation of these individuals in strategy conferences with Rosner’s lawyers violated his Sixth Amendment right freely to consult his counsel without Governmental intrusion. We do not lightly regard so serious a constitutional claim, for the essence of the Sixth Amendment right is, indeed, privacy of communication with counsel. Glasser v. United States, 315 U.S. 60, 62 S.Ct. 457, 86 L.Ed. 680 (1942). We conclude, however, that a finding of unlawful intrusion must precede the determination of its consequences. We can make no such finding here. Judge Bauman, after hearing the witnesses, found to the contrary. Even if, on a constitutional issue, we would eschew reliance on the “clearly erroneous” test, see Chapman v. California, 386 U.S. 18, 24, 87 S.Ct. 824, 17 L.Ed.2d 705 (1967), we are convinced, on our own review of the evidence, that the Government has sustained its contention beyond a reasonable doubt.15
Lamattina’s alleged participation in the counsels of the defense was quite limited. The only time he appeared at a talk between Rosner and counsel was at a lunch discussion in Gassner’s Restaurant after the Grand Jury appearance of the three prospective defendants in the instant case on June 30, 1972, before indictment. DeStefano’s contacts with Rosner and his counsel were more frequent. Albert Krieger, who had been retained on June 17, 1972 as Rosner’s trial counsel, recalled' the participation of DeStefano only two or three times in conferences which Krieger attended. He recalled no pre-indictment conference except that of June 30. He recalled one conversation with Mr. and Mrs. Rosner, in which DeStefano participated, as having taken place in November, shortly before the trial. According to Mr. Krieger, DeStefano was told, among other things, that his taped conversations were “very heavy evidence” against him. He was asked whether he was going to plead guilty and was also asked to give some information that might help the entrapment defense. He was also asked for information to attack the credibility of Leuci.16
It is apparent that Krieger and Rosner knew even then of the distinct possibility that DeStefano might plead guilty. Indeed, Krieger stated that very possibility in open court on November 20, before the jury was selected. The defense team must have known that, in human experience, the pressure of imminent incarceration tends to snap the bonds of loyalty.
At any rate, Mr. Krieger apparently took the position that he was better off continuing to see DeStefano to ask him whether Lamattina would testify against
15
The trial judge conducted an extensive evidentiary hearing at which the prosecutors, the alleged informers and defense counsel testified.
16
Since DeStefano was represented by separate counsel it is not clear why DeStefano was asked questions and given advice without the presence of his own counsel. We assume that DeStefano’s lawyer had no objection to this procedure.